Answers from the Experts

3+2 Engineering Programs "I am a senior trying to make the decision as to which colleges would be a good fit for me. I spent this summer at a NASA Sharp program and this helped to firm my decision to pursue engineerng as a career. My question concerns the 3+2 engineering programs. I am afraid that a 3+2 program would not provide me with the hands on exposure to a true engineering experience from which I may truly benefit and be competitive. What are the pros and cons of these programs and how are they viewed by the real world?" Responses were sent from: Allegheny College, The University of Iowa, Simon's Rock College of Bard, Davidson College, Norfolk State University, Johns Hopkins University, and Alfred University. Member Institution and Association Answers:

From Allegheny College: The reports I hear from students who have participated are that 3/2 programs have been seen as an advantage in helping to get a job after graduation. Many employers actually prefer engineers who have come through 3-2 programs because they are well rounded, communicate better in the workplace and they hold two degrees. In addition, because students study for five years rather than four, their class and lab experience will be greater than if they had only attended the engineering school. At an engineering school, students often do not have the flexibility to take classes outside that specific field. Students are exposed not just to the sciences, but also a full liberal arts curriculum. As a result, our students receive a much broader education, and develop critical thinking, writing and public speaking skills. I have also heard from people in engineering firms that the liberal arts background definitely gives students a leg up in competing for entry-level engineering positions. We have never had a student come back and say they regretted doing the 3/2 program. Martin Vaughn Associate Director of Admissions Allegheny College 800-521-5293 martin.vaughn@allegheny.edu

From the University of Iowa: The University of Iowa College of Engineering offers five major engineering departments with six programs: biomedical, chemical and biochemical, civil and environmental, electrical and computer, mechanical and industrial. UI graduates in engineering can work in a variety of fields after graduation that include engineering research, academia, governmental issues, and industry. Professor Victor Rodgers (victor-rodgers@uiowa.edu) is director of our "Ethnic Inclusion Effort for Iowa Engineering" and he would be happy to talk with you about engineering at the University of Iowa. By the way, we are located in Iowa City, Iowa, with a population of 30,000 students. We are a Big Ten university in a community of about 100,000. Please check out our website at www.engineering.uiowa.edu and our university website at www.uiowa.edu. Valerie Garr Director of Diversity Relations & Outreach Office of Admissions The University of Iowa valerie-garr@uiowa.edu (319) 335-1972

From Simon's Rock College of Bard: Simon's Rock College offers a 3/2 Engineering Program for students who are starting college one or two years early. Students enroll in Simon's Rock College after their tenth or eleventh grade year of high school. All of our college students have skipped one or two years of high school. The primary advantage of the Simon's Rock 3-2 Engineering program is that it provides students that extra year to explore more fully the liberal arts (including the sciences). There is no disadvantage as regards the engineering as the student takes all the preengineering courses in those three years that students at an engineering college take in their first two years. The more advanced engineering work is the same in the last two years. Because of the better grounding in the liberal arts, 3-2 students are often better prepared for the broader challenges of engineering. They can also be better prepared to choose the kind of engineering they want to pursue. For students interested in engineering or applied science, Simon's Rock College has dual degree arrangements with Columbia University, Dartmouth College, and Washington University in St Louis. Students in the combined B.A./B.S. program spend three years at Simon's Rock and two years at the affiliated engineering school. At the end of five years, students who have satisfied the requirements of both institutions receive a B.A. from Simon's Rock and a B.S. from the engineering school. Engineering and applied science fields include applied math, applied physics, biomedical engineering, chemical engineering, civil engineering, computer engineering, computer science, electrical engineering, environmental engineering, industrial engineering, materials science,and mechanical engineering. Although there are variations between engineering schools and engineering majors, for admission to an affiliated engineering school students should plan on taking the following courses in their three years at Simon’s Rock: Math 210 (Calculus I), Math 211 (Calculus II), Math 220 (Linear Algebra), Math 221 (Vector Calculus), Math 364 (ODE) Phys 100 (Physics I, w/lab), Phys 101 (Physics II, w/lab), Phys 220 (Intro to Quantum Physics), Phys 230 (Modern Physics Lab) Chem 100 (Chemistry I, w/lab), Chem 101 (Chemistry II, w/lab) Comp 241 (Intro to Programming) Columbia University requires Econ 100 (microeconomics). Washington University requires 8 credits of additional humanities or social sciences in the same field, with at least 1 credit above the 200 level. Venture Scholars interested in learning more about the 3/2 Engineering program at Simon's Rock College should contact the office of admission admit@simons-rock.edu. Mary King Austin Associate Dean of Admission Simon's Rock College of Bard 84 Alford Road Great Barrington, MA 01230 413-528-7317

From Davidson College: Davidson College students may elect to take the Davidson Dual Degree option after they are admitted to the College. You should contact the Davidson College Admissions Office for information about how to apply. The Admissions Office can also send you information about financial aid. The Dual Degree program guarantees students admission to our cooperating engineering schools (Washington University in St. Louis and Columbia University in NY) provided that they complete the required engineering preparatory courses and have the required 3.0 GPA. Although some students have continued on to engineering programs at other schools, there is no guarantee of admission to other schools. Although we offer a 3/2 option, many students prefer the 4/2 dual degree option because they do not want to miss their senior year at Davidson. To my knowledge, all Davidson students who have gone on to engineering school in the dual degree program have successfully completed their engineering degree. In order to take advantage of our program, you will need to complete a Davidson major, take the required preparatory courses in science and math, and have the required 3.0 GPA in science and math courses. It is import for you to realize that you must have a major in a Davidson department even if you only stay for 3 years. For example, if you are interested in Biomedical Engineering I suggest that you consider a Biology major. If you are interested in Electrical Engineering, I would suggest Physics. Etc. Economics or English are certainly possible majors but you will have less overlap with the engineering requirements. You can choose any major but you may have to use your electives to fulfill the engineering requirements. Davidson academic departments usually require 10-12 courses for a major but most departments will count a few engineering courses as part of this requirement for students choosing the 3/2 option. Physics, for example, usually counts two or three courses in EE toward the Physics major. So you would have to take approximately 8 courses in a department to complete a major under the 3/2 program. This load (a little over one course in the major field of study per term) is typical for Davidson students. My suggestion is that dual degree students start with a science sequence in addition to math in their freshman year. I recommend students start with Physics 130/230 (Calculus based) or the inorganic Chemistry sequence depending on their background. Computer programming can be taken at any time but I recommend it for the sophomore year. As you can see, it is very important that a 3/2 student start planning early. Students opting for the 4/2 program have more flexibility. I would be happy to answer any additional questions that you might have. Sincerely, Wolfgang Christian Professor of Engineering and Physics Davidson College

From Norfolk State University: I think that attending a College that has a 3-2 engineering program can be advantage for some students and maybe not for others. I think it depends on the individual and what your personal career goals and aspirations are. I think that there are several pros to attending a 3-2 engineering program. The main advantage is that you leave college with a dual degree (one from each college) and therefore you’re more marketable and you can diversify your options career wise. Also you get the opportunity to attend an College/University that you have always wanted to attend because of it’s excellence collegiate standing as a Liberal Arts School. And then also attend a University that has an excellent engineering program and it is probably listed as one of the top ranked engineering schools. For ex. A Liberal Arts College may have a very strong math, biology, physic or chemistry program that has a reputation of graduating some of the top scientist in the community. But they do not have an engineering program at that College. Attending that College and successfully completing the requirements will list you among those achievers that have accomplished the same goals. Also you will get to attend a University/College that has an excellent engineering program. These two great institutions decided to collaborate with one another to graduate students who they feel will be as competitive or even more competitive than a student who graduated with only an engineering degree in the standard engineering fields (civil, chemical, mechanical, electrical, industrial, aerospace, computer science & engineering). A student that graduate from a 3-2 engineering program will obtain dual degrees in areas, for example, chemistry and chemical engineering, physic and civil engineering, or math and mechanical engineering just to name a few. This makes you more marketable and open up your option to many different career choices. The advantage of attending a university that has a great/excellent engineering program is also important to think about as well. These institutions have also built a reputation for achieving excellence in their perspective-engineering program. So I think that it is wise to look at what each school has to offer based on your personal goals and aspirations and always talk it over with an adult or professional in the field and get some suggestions. Also remember that the location and the type of environment (snow, sunny area, earthquake, tornado/hurricane) the institution is located in city wide and how far you would like to move away from your family is also important when choosing the right institution and the right engineering program for yourself. The disadvantage is maybe the 3-2 program may take longer than a regular engineering program. But that I think will depend on the individual and how successful they are in completing their requirements on time. Dr. Aliecia R. McClain Director of the Dozoretz National Institute for Mathematics and Applied Science (DNIMAS) Scholarship Program Norfolk State University in Norfolk, VA 757-823-8209 amcclain@nsu.edu

From Johns Hopkins University: With a 3+2 program, you get the benefits of having a true liberal arts background AND a true engineering background. You get all of the hands-on exposure and take all of the upper level design classes that an engineer who went through the regular 4 year program would. The cons are more social...when you get to the new school you're a junior so people already know each other, and you don't know them...so it might be harder to find people to study with, etc. Plus, you're leaving all your friends at your first school. Also, sometimes we ask students to take at least one class in their junior year of their first school here at Hopkins...so they're still doing the first part of their program but they have to come here and take a class as well. Mrs. Jessica A. Hess Senior Assistant Director of Admissions Johns Hopkins University 410-516-8087

From Alfred University: Congratulations on your desire to be an engineer. As an engineering student you will become an analytical thinker, a problem solver, and able to use your strong math and science background to help you accomplish your goals. These skills can be applied to any job in the market place. Now you need to find the right program that will best fit your needs and desires. As an engineer and an Admissions Counselor at Alfred University, I will do my best to answer your question. When choosing an engineering school, the first thing is to make sure the school is Accredited by the Accreditation Board of Engineering and Technology. If you want to pursue the engineering that is desired by NASA or other large companies, you need to have a degree from an Accredited institution to be the most marketable. This will also allow you to become a professional Engineer later on. (If you want more information regarding a professional engineering license, please email me.) A 4 year program versus a 3 + 2 year program. If the 3 + 2 year program matches what you are looking for, and cheaper, I would encourage you to go for it. You must remember that you will be using another year of your life towards education, not earning money. A 4 year program will allow you to begin taking engineering classes the first year, allow you to take hands on labs, allow you to see what engineers study from the beginning. These early experiences will allow you better market yourself for strong Co-ops and/or internships. These experiences are great for making contacts and creating stronger Resumes. Your final degree, your contacts, your lab experience, and the reputation from the engineering school will be your best tools for marketing yourself when looking for a job. Look carefully within these areas as not all engineering schools are equal. Andrew Corman Engineering and Science Enrollment Specialist Alfred University Saxon Drive Alfred, NY 14802 607-871-2115/800-541-9229 Fax: 607-871-2198 cormanac@alfred.edu